tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post2224387044702328007..comments2023-10-29T11:15:37.625-04:00Comments on sleeping alone and starting out early: 'blogging is not serious writing': Oh, re-he-he-he-heallllly?Jenna McWilliamshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-70702627375662518582009-12-08T09:53:04.273-05:002009-12-08T09:53:04.273-05:00Many institutions limit access to their online inf...Many institutions limit access to their online information. Making this information available will be an asset to all.College Paper Writinghttp://www.researchpaperspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-35945461152176856032009-10-02T16:42:38.215-04:002009-10-02T16:42:38.215-04:00I feel that all of my posts lead with that, implic...I feel that all of my posts lead with that, implicitly.Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-3291976723181611432009-10-02T16:29:56.447-04:002009-10-02T16:29:56.447-04:00Ah, omniscience. If only you had led with that......Ah, omniscience. If only you had led with that... ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17467927466335282682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-55775454938830027612009-10-02T11:49:50.138-04:002009-10-02T11:49:50.138-04:00But this time it IS true. Everything is changing, ...But this time it IS true. Everything is changing, will change, and must change.Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-53302420369583839592009-10-02T11:46:06.676-04:002009-10-02T11:46:06.676-04:00So, a few quick points, though I don't want to...So, a few quick points, though I don't want to monopolize your comment thread...<br /><br />1) I think there is and should be a space for non-peer-reviewed ideas, presentations etc. But I also think that there are many upsides to peer review that shouldn't be discounted.<br /><br />2) Broad audience etc. is great - but which audience where, and is a blog the best place to get to that audience? For some of us and for some topics it is the PERFECT location. For others, less so. Furthermore, I find that with work that branches into many different areas, there are times when it behooves me to talk to very different audiences. So, if I personally were to blog, I'd need to decide between one of those audiences, multiple blogs, or tying to appeal to them all at once, which I think is incredibly problematic (though not always impossible). Also, I've spent a great deal of time over the last 15 years in a host of online discussion formats including blogs, poll sites, bulletin boards, list serves, chat forums, social networking sites, twitter, etc. in a range of roles including lurker, contributor, founder, moderator, reader, casual stop-in, etc. Through all that, I've found that sometimes that big broad audience is really powerful, and sometimes it is distracting when what you really want is to engage with some experts or folks with a shared understanding of the problem, etc. So, basically there are key trade-offs to be considered.<br /><br />3) I agree that the academic community is crucial. But I also think it existed before blogs, so we should also keep that in mind and think about the ways that it worked well before, and the ways that it might be enhanced.<br /><br />Basically, I don't disagree with any of your reasons for promoting, writing, or engaging with blogs. I obviously engage in reading them myself! However, I also think there have been many cycles in technology where people declare "this is it! everything is, will, and MUST change" and it isn't always true, or not as people suspect. So, I'm just trying to add my critical voice to the mix and try to think more explicitly about when and how something like a blog can be transformative, and for whom. And when maybe there is a better way to go.<br /><br />Thanks for reading...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17467927466335282682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-3439590719672704262009-10-02T08:22:51.872-04:002009-10-02T08:22:51.872-04:00But...but...the potential to reach a broad audienc...But...but...the potential to reach a broad audience...the potential to throw up interesting ideas that wouldn't survive peer review and to have people around the world comment on your ideas...it just seems...<br /><br />What would academia be like without its community? And blogs (and other tools, of course) allow us to think about "academic community" without regard to institutional affiliation or nationality or even credentials. I can comment on Howard Rheingold's blog and get him to comment on mine. Twenty years ago, would there have been any way for an uncredentialled student at a midwestern university to have that opportunity for conversation? (I mean, other than at conferences, where everyone like me wants their shot at Howard too.)Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-72713997732062258312009-10-02T07:57:11.326-04:002009-10-02T07:57:11.326-04:00Oh, I don't think it is anything so dramatic. ...Oh, I don't think it is anything so dramatic. Academics all have a range of voices and audiences, and that was true before blogging was an option and continues to be true. So, my sense is that those who find it interesting, helpful, powerful, etc., will continue to blog, and those that find other venues more / similarly productive will continue to do their work there. <br /><br />One way I tried to think about it was: if blogging suddenly counted as much for my tenure case as refereed journal articles, would I start blogging regularly?<br /><br />The answer is ... I don't know for sure, but probably not. I might start with some research into whether the audiences I want to reach are actually reading blogs. My guess is that only a small percentage of them are in my case, in which case I may be able to reach more people via other methods.<br /><br />Wait, you say, there are other benefits to blogging! True. I won't dispute that, but I'm also not convinced that they are limited to blogging.<br /><br />Having said all that, I also admit that I have setup my website as a blog, and have a few small posts there. Over time, I'll add to that, and I may get hooked. Or not. I'll let you know in a few years :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17467927466335282682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-6721280228472881652009-10-01T21:20:48.521-04:002009-10-01T21:20:48.521-04:00@joshua,
That's so depressing to hear! Does t...@joshua, <br />That's so depressing to hear! Does this mean that all good academics will give up blogging in favor of more favored activities? How much is lost when that happens?Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-31394132712883593412009-10-01T21:10:42.367-04:002009-10-01T21:10:42.367-04:00Jenna,
One thing that jumped out at me in this di...Jenna,<br /><br />One thing that jumped out at me in this discussion is the question of rigor. I found myself wondering "which kinds and aspects of rigor are we talking about?" In the world of journals there is a dramatic range in the rigor demanded by editors / readers, and this is both well known and factors into the tenure process. The flip-side might be that there are clearly a range of kinds (and amounts) of rigor that not only are employed in blogs, but may be demanded in a sense by blog readers. Are they the same, though? <br /><br />Furthermore, I feel compelled to say that my take is that not blogging is not a glaring omission amongst many faculty yet. It may be amongst the more high-tech faculty (though even then there are very tech-savy faculty who ignore the blogosphere) on the part of students who note which faculty still have a web-site developed in 1999 and which ones are on twitter, but... I think we aren't there yet even if it may seem that way in some circles.<br /><br />JoshuaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17467927466335282682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-49643102056414760652009-09-30T05:19:37.935-04:002009-09-30T05:19:37.935-04:00I listened to David Boud try to demystify publishi...I listened to David Boud try to demystify publishing in journals describing such papers as entering into a conversation, albeit an incredibly slow one. I enjoy being able to blog and enter into current conversations. Thankyou for blogging this topic.ailsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10247094621951852148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-5688631832459346862009-09-29T08:11:46.427-04:002009-09-29T08:11:46.427-04:00Jose,
Since we're quoting a lot:
"It’s j...Jose,<br />Since we're quoting a lot: <br />"It’s just a matter of time until we (or our scientific publishers) realize how much we could gain by being readable, popular, and accessible."<br /><br />This also comes from Jose's post at Academic Productivity. It does seem that we agree on certain things.<br /><br />Kylie, it seems like you're the one changing the institution--you and all the faculty members like you who push their students to engage with social media platforms as authentic, valid formats for intellectual engagement. I'll help you along by keeping this blog.Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-8730199224694993272009-09-29T03:47:44.859-04:002009-09-29T03:47:44.859-04:00I think that the larger institution is certainly a...I think that the larger institution is certainly a barrier to blogging as being seen as academic work... I can hear the voices on my tenure committee now saying that it's the the lack of traditional types of peer review... Although reading the comments makes me think that there is certainly a way to reconceptualize "peer review" to give it a facelift... So Jenna, the question for me is how are you/we going to go about changing the institution? What's the plan so we can all get behind it? ;)Kylie Pepplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13112256938128354057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-6702137411069640752009-09-29T00:53:13.431-04:002009-09-29T00:53:13.431-04:00Hi Jenna (and commenters).
Looks like we are sayi...Hi Jenna (and commenters).<br /><br />Looks like we are saying the same thing, but in different ways. I've been blogging for as long as you, and I see the value of blogging as much as anyone. In fact, I have an unfinished post on how blogs and books, been less exposed to the flattening effect of peer review, can be more agile and worth reading. I have a pile of unfinished posts so we'll see.<br /><br />I'm glad to see that in your field "not having a blog is increasingly a glaring omission". Not in mine, that's for sure! I still blog all the same.<br /><br />Anyway, what I wanted to emphasize is that 'even if they are not serious writing', they have an important role. But more than that, the style for blogging and writing papers is different, and we need to master both. Calling one 'serious' is not a compliment. Most academics only master the 'serious' style. My point is that we definitely need to put more effort on the other.<br />I'm not sure how I came across a 'get-out-of-my-lawn' antiblogger :)<br /><br />But just because we are quoting a lot:<br />"I’m convinced that some ideas’ natural ecosystem is the blog post, and some papers are unnecessarily elaborated and boring without necessity."Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00513258538692469438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-8801349410911196472009-09-28T20:36:03.925-04:002009-09-28T20:36:03.925-04:00I think a good contemporary reference for the vice...I think a good contemporary reference for the vices and virtues of blogs can be found in chris mooney and sheril kirshenbaum's Unscientific America - looking solely at science blogs they write that the science blogs most prone to flaming, pseudoscience discussions of otherwise hot button scientific debates, and anti-intellectual riffs seem to be winning the popularity contest, but at the same time there is a good persistent segment of blogs that is recognized in academia for being not just as informative as peer reviewed journals but also much more appealing and public-savvy for non-specialists. The chapter itself is really good, but the whole book was a bit too vague (and I think the publishers made them come off a bit doomsday sounding at times) so it's probably not worth buying or reading otherwise.The Untwitterablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17335659398207623037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-62464034296580450022009-09-28T20:16:52.035-04:002009-09-28T20:16:52.035-04:00aw cracker doodles,
i figured it out. ctrl c, ctr...aw cracker doodles, <br />i figured it out. ctrl c, ctrl v has made a fool of me. I'll never be foiled by hotkeys again! I'll try to follow this up with a legitimate intelligent comment now lest I prove Quesada's point.The Untwitterablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17335659398207623037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-67512781286785173542009-09-28T18:55:16.238-04:002009-09-28T18:55:16.238-04:00Hey Jenna,
sorry to write a random thing in here....Hey Jenna,<br /><br />sorry to write a random thing in here. I was going to use my new media skill of 'copying and pasting' or what I like to call 'transmedia translating' but uh i cannot figure out how to copy the blogpost i wrote in word into my blog box. please save me from my new media distress...if you do, i promise i'll read fully your blogpost and contribute a real comment.The Untwitterablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17335659398207623037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-41301835493419921172009-09-28T14:47:49.545-04:002009-09-28T14:47:49.545-04:00wow. good comment. that's all. just...good com...wow. good comment. that's all. just...good comment.Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-50687092662536038112009-09-28T14:28:18.354-04:002009-09-28T14:28:18.354-04:00Well, as purveyors of a blog with absolutely no so...Well, as purveyors of a blog with absolutely no socially redeeming value, we certainly fit Mr. Quesada's definition, however we feel obligated to say that his view that blogging is not serious writing is somewhat akin to saying Granny Smiths aren't apples.<br /><br />Of course Granny Smiths aren't <i>all</i> apples, but they are some apples just as "serious writing" isn't all writing, but it is some writing.<br /><br />What a dull pie we would have if Granny Smiths were the only apples in the world, and what a dull blogosphere if serious writing were the only writing in the blogosphere.<br /><br />Our point is there's room in this cart (blogosphere) for all the varieties. That's why they call them varieties. Get it Mr. Quesada? Makes a better pie when you mix it up a little.<br /><br />We also find the veiled implication that only serious writing is valued and, dare we say, good writing to be vaguely insulting and rather narrow is scope, but then we never thought rigor was all it was cracked up to be anyway, which may explain why our graduate chair retired shortly after we received our degree.<br /><br />But that's another story.Ironicus Maximushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09220762764339626768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-8118931621294584582009-09-27T19:06:15.940-04:002009-09-27T19:06:15.940-04:00No, I'm only saying that blogs CAN be consider...No, I'm only saying that blogs CAN be considered spaces for rigorous and polished discourse, despite arguments to the contrary. I'm not making any proclamations about which blogs are, or which blogs are better than others. From a participatory culture theory perspective, questions of net value are meaningless, anyway. What really matters is what types of communications get taken up in culturally meaningful ways, and why, and for whom.Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-60201082032809148442009-09-27T14:27:59.189-04:002009-09-27T14:27:59.189-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.melissanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-41897965650102401572009-09-27T14:22:36.575-04:002009-09-27T14:22:36.575-04:00I wrote this whole response and then it errored ou...I wrote this whole response and then it errored out. Anyhow, here's trying again...<br /><br />Perhaps a blogger can play to the masses, but so can an academic play to the masses to get a piece published in a journal--and that sort of playing is often more insidious as it becomes mired in polictics and bureaucracy. Yes, there is value to being published in a peer-reviewed journal, but in this social revolution, blogging provides a platform for more voices to enter into the dominant Discourse. Because assuming that the only legitimate voices are the ones being published, it begs the question of whether or not the academics who care only about getting pieces published have forgotten why they're doing it to begin with.<br /><br />I feel that having a platform like this affords our productivity to be not only more efficient, but more genuine. As has been referenced in this blog so many times before, doing it for love, and not necessarily for money...Melissanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-47055038327323009022009-09-27T14:17:56.889-04:002009-09-27T14:17:56.889-04:00There's an overall undertone here. Ladybusines...There's an overall undertone here. Ladybusiness is academic but my blog is not. Perhaps abovethelaw.com is academic but--wait; is that an academic blog or is it pure slush? Where do we put http://blog.simplejustice.us/? Perhaps ideolog is but idealawg isn't. Such distinctions are becoming more and more blurred and I'm not sure they shouldn't be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-43172530198918957282009-09-27T14:14:53.793-04:002009-09-27T14:14:53.793-04:00Academic productivity is not only about getting wo...Academic productivity is not only about getting work done efficiently, but also to make progress, right? You can play to the masses just to get a piece published too. And although, yes, there is value in being published in peer-reviewed journals, etc, I feel that the idea that this is the only legitimate way to communicate begs the question of whether or not you've forgotten why you're doing what you're doing to begin with. <br /><br />The advantages of social media, and in correllation with the social revolution, allow more voices to break into the discussion--which has potential to jostle the dominant Discourse. <br /><br />So, yes, academic blogs provide a platform for more efficent work, but they also, potentially, provide a platform for more genuine work. As has been referenced in this blog before, it's for the love of it. Not necessarily for the money.melissanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-68008714354894231532009-09-27T13:58:13.497-04:002009-09-27T13:58:13.497-04:00Laura,
It's not at all my intention to imply t...Laura,<br />It's not at all my intention to imply that I look down on blogs intended for small, non-academic audiences. Indeed, I agree (and have argued in the above post and elsewhere) that one of the neatest affordances of the weblog is that it supports a vast range of writing styles, intended audiences, and rhetorical purposes. Be funny if you want! Be unpolished and crazy! Use your blog as a diary! Tweet about what you had for breakfast! For godsake, that's also how god intended the blog and microblog to be used.<br /><br />My argument here is only with respect to the use of blogs by academics for the purpose of expressing and circulating ideas--and to the argument that blogs by their very nature lack rigor and polish. They MIGHT lack rigor and polish, sure, but they don't HAVE to.Jenna McWilliamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07767988531102621970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343773643758367735.post-78855441180934589372009-09-27T13:39:58.823-04:002009-09-27T13:39:58.823-04:00There are lots of bloggers who write for a small, ...There are lots of bloggers who write for a small, but intended, audience. I'm playing to a crowd and so what? I'm not changing the world here and I'm not trying to. My audience is small but tight and made up of a large number of other law- and law-school bloggers. We share ideas in comments and emails and, yes, even 140-character blurbs. It doesn't mean that we take our sites--and our writing--any less seriously, and it certainly doesn't mean that our thinking is any less solid. I put as much time and effort into my work as you do into yours; a blog doesn't have to speak to academics to be well-written. <br /><br />I've had enough of this outdated stance with regard to blogs. If you stop looking down on us you might realize that we're part of the social media network, too. Without the rest of us you wouldn't have a revolution to write about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com